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[WorkerBee]

Hi Folks !

Next Generation Physics version 6 (NGP6) is available.

The test setup is based on RBRCIT (v1.0.6), as I don't want to go thru the hassle of having to provide a hundred links again ...

I have made a switching tool.

* Download and extract the switching tool archive into your RBR root folder.
* Switch to NGP6 by executing the respective script (NGP6.cmd).
* Open RBRCIT.
* Menu: Save your current car list.
* Menu: Restore Original Cars.
* Menu: Update Carlist.ini (you will get now only NGP6 cars).
* Button: Update Plugin (to 6.x.x).
* Menu: Update All Existing Physics (will overwrite NGP5 with NGP6 physics).
* Move cars into list.
* Save new car list.
* Apply.

Back to NGP5:
* Switch to NGP5 by executing the respective script (NGP5.cmd).
* Open RBRCIT.
* Menu: Save your current car list.
* Menu: Restore Original Cars.
* Menu: Update Carlist.ini (you will get now only NGP5 cars)
* Button: Update Plugin (to 5.x.x).
* Menu: Update All Existing Physics (will overwrite NGP6 with NGP5 physics)
* Move cars into list.
* Save new car list.
* Apply.

What's new (see readme for more details, as usual):
* revised tyres and surfaces
* barometric formula (affects tyres, engine, brakes, aero)
* engine temperature management
* tyre temperature management
* tyre performance truely camber and speed dependent
* brake temperature management
* rear brakes still functional if brake circuit damaged
* telemetry recorder
* allow only genuine NGP cars


Car list:

Audi quattro Grp4
Citroen C2 R2 Max
Citroen C4 WRC 2008
Citroen DS3 R1
Citroen DS3 R3-MAX
Citroen DS3 WRC
Citroen Xsara WRC 2006
Fiat 124 Abarth Rally RGT (b)
Ford Fiesta WRC 2019
Hyundai i20 R5
Opel Ascona 400 Grp4
Porsche 911 SC RS GrpB
Renault Clio 16S Williams GrpA
Skoda Fabia R5 (b)

Cars models are the same as in NGP5, so no need to download any model again.


The Bee

Zuletzt bearbeitet von WorkerBee am Sa Mai 18, 2019 07:48, insgesamt 2-mal bearbeitet

[Fabz]

Thx for the update. The grip and Brakes feel amazing I think the tyres and brakes get warmer. Also i can push the corner much more now with the cars.
Can we use all stages to test or only vanilla stages?

[WorkerBee]

As usual, if anything would not work I would have mentioned it (like e.g. vanilla cars which are not supported).
As far as your plugin (TrainingDay, RBRTM) is capable of loading a stage, you will be able to drive it.

Of course you can only use NGP6 offline, as the Czech tournament plugin only supports one kind of physics, and that's NGP5 currently.
Therefore the switcher, so you do not have to build up a second installation.

The plan is to add more and more car classes and cars to NGP6, while users get used to it and maybe try out the true masterpiece.

NGP6 adds even much more details to the simulation than ever before to get it closer to the real thing.
_________________
NGP 6 - It Doesn’t Just Raise the Bar, It is the Bar!

[echebenitez]

Hi nice work. Congrats. RBR is bigger´. i was try run with C2 R2 in Uchan-Su stage and is incredible. i was use a lot brake pedal to know if effect is correct and half stage the car not brake nothing jajajajaja. i think there are not games with this effect. Think with NGP 6.0 rallys with long stages will be more funny

[JanneLaahanen]

Thanks bee this is amazing! Moving one step more towards the perfect rally sim.

[KKS]

Thanks for an update, can we see more detail about surfaces grips? In 5.0 I guess for gravel, a 'normal' surface have a better grip rather than 'new'm but still incredibly slippery one.
Can you provide some table in grip.coeff "before/after"?
It getting more slippery or griper compare to v5.0?

[WorkerBee]

KKS hat folgendes geschrieben:

Thanks for an update, can we see more detail about surfaces grips? In 5.0 I guess for gravel, a 'normal' surface have a better grip rather than 'new'm but still incredibly slippery one. Can you provide some table in grip.coeff "before/after"? It getting more slippery or griper compare to v5.0?

Yes, it is slippery when wet.
No table.
It is up to the track creators to map the materials (=basic grip levels) to the surface properties (dry/damp/wet/new/normal/worn).
So I can't answer this question.
Grip is a matter of tyre/surface combination, not simply about coefficents ... at least in our simulation.
_________________
NGP 6 - It Doesn’t Just Raise the Bar, It is the Bar!

[KKS]

WorkerBee hat folgendes geschrieben:

It is up to the track creators to map the materials (=basic grip levels) to the surface properties (dry/damp/wet/new/normal/worn). So I can't answer this question. Grip is a matter of tyre/surface combination, not simply about coefficents ... at least in our simulation.

Yep I know that.
But if in v5.0 Gravel_Fine_Deep_Dry = 0.98, same basic grip level in v6.0 for Gravel_Fine_Deep_Dry was griper =1.01 or slippy = 0.95? Cuz from 4.0 to 5.0 it was definitely slipper for gravel

[WorkerBee]

So you know that. Good.

No matter the value I give you, the answer would be just plain wrong.

Grip changes with so many parameters and algorithms, so the final grip is basically only known at runtime.

One and a half year of development to raise the bar once again, why don't you just try out the cars on stage ?!
_________________
NGP 6 - It Doesn’t Just Raise the Bar, It is the Bar!

[Penny_Menny]

Ich finde die Reaktionen, gerade vom 124, ein wenig unrealistisch. Man fährt nur leicht in eine Kurve und einen überholt direkt das Heck? Oder liege ich da falsch..

Das sieht nämlich im folgenden Video deutlich ruhiger aus:
Fiat 124 RGT Inboard
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~ Opel Kadett E GSi 16v ~

[Lamda]

Zitat:

Ich finde die Reaktionen, gerade vom 124, ein wenig unrealistisch. Man fährt nur leicht in eine Kurve und einen überholt direkt das Heck? Oder liege ich da falsch

das würde mich wundern, wenn das so wäre.
ohne handbremseinsatz würde ich mal das setup explizit auf steifheit am heck und bremsbalance untersuchen.

mit steifheit am heck meine ich sowohl die dampfer als auch die stabilisatoren.
_________________
Der Horizont vieler Menschen ist ein Kreis mit Radius
Null - und das nennen sie ihren Standpunkt.

--------------------------
www.germangarage.de

[WorkerBee]

Penny_Menny hat folgendes geschrieben:

Ich finde die Reaktionen, gerade vom 124, ein wenig unrealistisch. Man fährt nur leicht in eine Kurve und einen überholt direkt das Heck? Oder liege ich da falsch.. Das sieht nämlich im folgenden Video deutlich ruhiger aus: Fiat 124 RGT Inboard

Naja, der RGT ist ja auch ein Rasiermesser und will als solches behandelt werden.
Dir ist schon klar, dass hier 600 Nm an einer angetriebenen Achse anschieben, die sich "unglücklicherweise" hinten befindet !?
Dazu noch eine ausgeglichene Gewichtsverteilung, da würde ich mich wundern, wenn das Heck nicht zum überholen ansetzt.
DAS wäre unrealistisch.

Die Onboard von einem Profi zeigt mir nur, dass er halt fahren kann.
Bringt uns nicht weiter.
_________________
NGP 6 - It Doesn’t Just Raise the Bar, It is the Bar!

[WBK]

Der Abarth hat in echt auch im Rallye-Trim eine Traktionskontrolle, die fehlt in RBR aber, wenn ich nicht einen Schritt bei der NGP-Entwicklung verpasst habe
Da ist dann noch etwas mehr Feingefühl hinterm Steuer gefragt

Freue mich schon sehr auf NGP 6, die Änderungen klingen sehr vielversprechend. Bei der Barometrischen Höhenformel würde mich persönlich noch interessieren, woher das Plugin weiß, auf welcher Höhe über NN eine Stecke liegt. Oder werden da "nur" Höhenunterschiede auf der Prüfung eingerechnet und nicht die Gesamtlage?
_________________


Rallyevideos aus dem Dreiländereck Deutschland - Österreich - Tschechien

[WorkerBee]

WBK hat folgendes geschrieben:

Der Abarth hat in echt auch im Rallye-Trim eine Traktionskontrolle, die fehlt in RBR aber, wenn ich nicht einen Schritt bei der NGP-Entwicklung verpasst habe Da ist dann noch etwas mehr Feingefühl hinterm Steuer gefragt Freue mich schon sehr auf NGP 6, die Änderungen klingen sehr vielversprechend. Bei der Barometrischen Höhenformel würde mich persönlich noch interessieren, woher das Plugin weiß, auf welcher Höhe über NN eine Stecke liegt. Oder werden da "nur" Höhenunterschiede auf der Prüfung eingerechnet und nicht die Gesamtlage?

Korrekt, Traktionskontrolle. Wird es in NGP nie geben. Ist was für (was man hier nicht schreiben darf...) !

Die Strecke wurde auf eine bestimmte Höhe modelliert (das macht der Ersteller).
NGP6 berechnet die absolute Temperatur und den absoluten Druck in der entsprechenden Höhe, in der sich das Auto befindet.
Bezogen auf Normalnull oder wie auch immer das heißen mag, offiziell.
Heißt, falls Pikes Peak auf entsprechender Höhe erstellt wurde (Startpunkt), dann geht der Kiste noch weiter oben die Puste aus ...
Downforce wird natürlich auch weniger etc. etc.
_________________
NGP 6 - It Doesn’t Just Raise the Bar, It is the Bar!

[WorkerBee]

New NGP6 car available:

Renault Clio 16S Williams GrpA

As usual, carlist.ini updated.

I suppose one or two drivers out there would like to give it a try.
_________________
NGP 6 - It Doesn’t Just Raise the Bar, It is the Bar!

[Fabz]

Thx Testing it tomorrow

Zuletzt bearbeitet von Fabz am Mo Feb 25, 2019 22:29, insgesamt einmal bearbeitet

[Sherman]

Love you xxx

[BUCK Tyler]

I'm not having any problems staying upright...

https://youtu.be/AO0wehgNY0A

Thanks Workerbee!

[Fabz]

The clio is amazing to drive. Good job. Thx I am pretty sure the Group A 4WD also be amazing when they come out.

[anbarra]

Wheels should have been gone...

No, stay serious. It is interesting and i am very happy some tricky understeering is back in business, although it seems to me a little bit more than necessary, but the immense grip on gravel is something i am really happy of tarmac is tricky, the lines are tighter. steering feels like cut straight off the vanilla rbr. i dont know if i really like it, or do i like it just because of the best memories
_________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJICN45ypvE

[jendabek]

Hi Bee,

I must say the driving is so different and so perfect for me! But I experienced a collision bug in Carvalho de Rei, I made a video (non-public, dont worry)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfUN2RAoOPE

In editor I can see those little stones are part of the ground collision mesh, so that can be the issue, but it doesnt happen with NGP 5, also next passes were OK. I dont know whether it is related to the NGP or new car DS3 physics though.
I used the default DS3 setup (which oversteers extremely BTW, but I am sure that can be fixed by adjusting the setup).
Anyway, the driving experience is incredible now, the car behavior seems to be much more "detailed", like more things is happening... I cannot wait to drive with some good setup
Thank you!
_________________
Zlin SS1 stage development
http://www.jankaderabek.com
https://www.facebook.com/zlinss1

Zuletzt bearbeitet von jendabek am Fr März 01, 2019 20:17, insgesamt einmal bearbeitet

[WorkerBee]

Thanks for reporting.

Well, I see, looks like the front of the car hooks into that hole.
I would say, bad luck, as you are braking here and the front springs compress pretty much.

I suppose it is a combination of spring stiffness, ride height, all that stuff.

Would not be the first time that our favourite track creator has somehow exaggerated the ruts a little bit.
As basically I did not change anything collision related in NGP6, compared to NGP5.
_________________
NGP 6 - It Doesn’t Just Raise the Bar, It is the Bar!

[Lamda]

Zitat:

But I experienced a collision bug in Carvalho de Rei

if you want make serious test, avoid tracks from trackbuilder Popov orrally guru (there some more which have no appreciation of higher technical details)

Point 1
Rally Guru makes some tracks with to rough mesh, mostly in combination with to big polygones. result is sometimes cars "sinking" into the mesh. some cars more sensitive for such effects (doe to wheelbase, suspension setup and so on)

Point 2
It is impossible to see the ground collision mesh with editor. Collision mesh and textured mesh can (but not must) be made different. so maybe Rally guru made some more holes and ruts inside his collision

Point 3
maybe you have an setup issue, dont use old setups or old values (used in past). by reason of some changes of the car itsself (suspension geometry or something like that) old setups would be generate bullshit

I see only the point for workerbee further work against this problem, if you was driven with default setup and you get same issue on other tracks to. than it could make sense to rework the default setup (but nothing more)
_________________
Der Horizont vieler Menschen ist ein Kreis mit Radius
Null - und das nennen sie ihren Standpunkt.

--------------------------
www.germangarage.de

[jendabek]

These are tracks that are commonly driven in the online championships, so I think it is relevant to test them. If it is an issue of the track itself, then we should contact the authors to fix it so this won't happen after the physics are implemented on the server.
But as I said - I drove this stage many times with NGP 5 and I never experienced this, while with NGP 6 it happen just in the very first run with the default DS3 setup.
If you are sure this is the problem of the track's collision mesh, I can tell RallyGuru to fix it as I am in touch with him daily.

Anyway, you are right with that collision mesh display, I forgot it display only after it is generated in the editor.
_________________
Zlin SS1 stage development
http://www.jankaderabek.com
https://www.facebook.com/zlinss1

[jendabek]

Have you guys changed something in the force feedback? It feels improved dramatically! Good work!

One feedback from a real rally driver - he says the brakes should stay to be effective for much longer distances (he noticed the car almost stops braking after just 4kms, he tested Hyundai R5 and Clio) and also diffs tends to be oversteering too much based on his testings. Otherwise he likes it a lot!

I noticed also some differences in the engine sound, there is now some clipping like here: https://youtu.be/qMkkVVi3TS8?t=9 Does NGP 6 uses higher sound levels so this (custom) one is clipping?
_________________
Zlin SS1 stage development
http://www.jankaderabek.com
https://www.facebook.com/zlinss1

Zuletzt bearbeitet von jendabek am Sa März 02, 2019 13:47, insgesamt 2-mal bearbeitet